Post by js77 on Jun 24, 2019 16:24:40 GMT
Hey Forum
I was wondering a few things. my battery specs say to charge at 14.6 but my mppt charge controller when set to "lithium setting automatically chooses 14.4 I was wondering if I should increase to 14.6 after watching a you tube video where someone also did that. My battery is not a renogy battery but a torque power brand. (specposted below)
I was thinking to increase cycle life even though I loose a little capacity can I set my battery to charge to 90%. So i was thinking of changing the parameters of the mppt controller to 14.3 instead of 14.4, (but now looking at the specs maybe 14.4 is already 90%.) But either way, my question is about how the BMS balances when its not fully charged. If I drop the parameters on my controller to a few decimals below what fully charges the battery so it ends up charging to 90%, then I am wondering if it will it still balance since bms is probably top balancing. Top balancing means the BMS needs to be 100% charging so it can continue to charge lower cells as it vents extra charge off cells that are get to 100% faster than others until they are all equal volts at 100%. Not that these batteries go much out of balance, but its probably still important to let the bms do its balancing job once in a while. So wondering if anyone has thoughts on if there are balancing cons to charging to 90% on these batteries. they all look similar battle born renogy and torque power brands. Do they all use top balancing type bms'. Even though 90% increases the life cycle dramatically and maybe i could get 6000 cycles, I still want to balance. Its not to hard to once in a while to sometimes set it to charge to 100% like once a month under heavy use-- which is what some ebikers do to protect their batteries but get the most cycles out of them when they buy programmable wall chargers. There are different types of bms and there is a newer kind that does continual balancing where it takes energy from higher cells and gives it to lower cells. in that case it would not matter if I did not fully charge to 100%, i think top balancing is the most standard of bms' but there is also bottom balance systems, but that would make little sense on a solar system which rarely runs the battery all the way down might never balance on such a configuration.
Second question if you look at specs posted below, I also do not understand why the renogy mppt controller even when set to lithium setting, has default a charge limit voltage set to 15.5 volts, where as most of the other settings are automatically set to 14.4 in its parameters. Will Prowes who makes a lot of videos says to set charge limit to 14.6 but that is for a system set to charge to 14.4, so maybe his logic would mean i should set mine 2 degrees above whatever my charging is set to. so if I have 14.6 as my charging setting then my charge limit should be 14.8. but if you look below the default of my charger being charge limit of 15.5 seems way high. I think Im going to change that charge limit setting to 14.6 and leave the boost charge and float charge at 14.4 for now. i see no reason why the battery would get up to 15.5 because the internal bms would not allow that.
Also a minor questions i have if I should follow Will Prowes' advice to lower the floating setting. some people say to change mppt controller float settings to 13.6 for lithium. on his controller he lowered it from 13.8 to 13.6 as also a way to get the most cycles out of these batteries. but 13.8 is listed in the battery specs for float voltage so that makes me think its the bms is already managing that because my mppt has float set to 14.4. But maybe in the specs of battery they mean to tell you to float at 13.8. I do not know if bms manages float, but i assume it does. In that case setting float to 13.6 on the charge control would probably override the 13.8 setting in the bms
my battery is brand new only been in there a few days and has been raining, with running a fridge and other things, I have not yet seen it made it up to 100%. but today is sunny and it will probably reach 100%. This Torque power battery is great because it also has a built in bluetooth monitor. So I can monitor its voltage and percentage seperate from any other device. I guess I will know if for some reason it only charges in full sun after a few hours to 90% on the current 14.4 mppt controller setting shown below, then 14.4 is not the right setting and I should change it to 14.6 if I want 100%. So that kinda might answer my first question.
This is a real learning experience. If anyone has any input based on the default renogy settings below and the specs of my battery to help me make the best parameter adjustments to get the best cycle life, that would be much appreciated as I think this subject of parameter settings is not really covered in the instruction manuals or websites of these products. Do you think i should ask these questions separately? they are interrelated but some people hate long posts.
here is the list of the parameters of my battery the Torque Power brand followed by the default lithium settings on my rengory mppt 20amp controller
Toroup power 12v LifePo4 100ah battery trqpower.com/product/12v-100ah-lithium-battery/
Voltage: 12 Volts DC
Capacity: 100 Ah (1,280 Watt-hours)
Weight: 26.4 lbs (12.0 kg)
Size: 12.5×6.5×9.25 in (318x165x235 mm)
Long Life: 2,000 Cycles @80% DOD (on the website in another place it says 3,000 cycles @80%)
Operating Temperature: Discharge: -4°F – 140°F (-20°C – 60°C)
Charge: 32°F – 113°F (0°C – 45°C)
Charge Voltage: 14.6±0.1V
Discharge Cut-off Voltage 8 Volts DC:
Slow Charge Current: 10A for 10 hours
Fast Charge Current: 50A for 2 hours
Float Voltage (Standby): 13.8±0.1V
Max Discharge Current: 100A / 350A (3s)
Self Discharge Rate: ≤1.5% per month
This is the list of what my Renogy charge controller parameters automatically dealt to when I choose LI on my charge controller. I must assume this is what they think works best with their renogy lifepo4 batteries. Although I can adjust these parameters in the using the renogy charge controller bluetooth thing and its app, i cannot turn off any other them that i think unnecessary to have, but some might be turned off since it has -- instead of a number: Battleborn website says lithium does not need equalization or boost. so that makes sense, and anyway those are all set to 14.4 so that voltage goal I think is the main way this mppt charger is operating
high voltage disconnect 16,0
charge limit voltage 15.5
Equalize Charge 14.4
Boost Charge 14.4
float charge 14.4
boost char return volt 13.2
over disc reture volt 12.6 (they actually spell it reture in the app? I guess they mean return)
low voltage alarm 12.1
over discharge volt 11.1
discharge limit volt 10.6
over disc delay time (s) 5
Equalize charge time (min) 0
boost charge time --
Equalize Charge interval --
temp compensation mv/C/2v) 0
I was wondering a few things. my battery specs say to charge at 14.6 but my mppt charge controller when set to "lithium setting automatically chooses 14.4 I was wondering if I should increase to 14.6 after watching a you tube video where someone also did that. My battery is not a renogy battery but a torque power brand. (specposted below)
I was thinking to increase cycle life even though I loose a little capacity can I set my battery to charge to 90%. So i was thinking of changing the parameters of the mppt controller to 14.3 instead of 14.4, (but now looking at the specs maybe 14.4 is already 90%.) But either way, my question is about how the BMS balances when its not fully charged. If I drop the parameters on my controller to a few decimals below what fully charges the battery so it ends up charging to 90%, then I am wondering if it will it still balance since bms is probably top balancing. Top balancing means the BMS needs to be 100% charging so it can continue to charge lower cells as it vents extra charge off cells that are get to 100% faster than others until they are all equal volts at 100%. Not that these batteries go much out of balance, but its probably still important to let the bms do its balancing job once in a while. So wondering if anyone has thoughts on if there are balancing cons to charging to 90% on these batteries. they all look similar battle born renogy and torque power brands. Do they all use top balancing type bms'. Even though 90% increases the life cycle dramatically and maybe i could get 6000 cycles, I still want to balance. Its not to hard to once in a while to sometimes set it to charge to 100% like once a month under heavy use-- which is what some ebikers do to protect their batteries but get the most cycles out of them when they buy programmable wall chargers. There are different types of bms and there is a newer kind that does continual balancing where it takes energy from higher cells and gives it to lower cells. in that case it would not matter if I did not fully charge to 100%, i think top balancing is the most standard of bms' but there is also bottom balance systems, but that would make little sense on a solar system which rarely runs the battery all the way down might never balance on such a configuration.
Second question if you look at specs posted below, I also do not understand why the renogy mppt controller even when set to lithium setting, has default a charge limit voltage set to 15.5 volts, where as most of the other settings are automatically set to 14.4 in its parameters. Will Prowes who makes a lot of videos says to set charge limit to 14.6 but that is for a system set to charge to 14.4, so maybe his logic would mean i should set mine 2 degrees above whatever my charging is set to. so if I have 14.6 as my charging setting then my charge limit should be 14.8. but if you look below the default of my charger being charge limit of 15.5 seems way high. I think Im going to change that charge limit setting to 14.6 and leave the boost charge and float charge at 14.4 for now. i see no reason why the battery would get up to 15.5 because the internal bms would not allow that.
Also a minor questions i have if I should follow Will Prowes' advice to lower the floating setting. some people say to change mppt controller float settings to 13.6 for lithium. on his controller he lowered it from 13.8 to 13.6 as also a way to get the most cycles out of these batteries. but 13.8 is listed in the battery specs for float voltage so that makes me think its the bms is already managing that because my mppt has float set to 14.4. But maybe in the specs of battery they mean to tell you to float at 13.8. I do not know if bms manages float, but i assume it does. In that case setting float to 13.6 on the charge control would probably override the 13.8 setting in the bms
my battery is brand new only been in there a few days and has been raining, with running a fridge and other things, I have not yet seen it made it up to 100%. but today is sunny and it will probably reach 100%. This Torque power battery is great because it also has a built in bluetooth monitor. So I can monitor its voltage and percentage seperate from any other device. I guess I will know if for some reason it only charges in full sun after a few hours to 90% on the current 14.4 mppt controller setting shown below, then 14.4 is not the right setting and I should change it to 14.6 if I want 100%. So that kinda might answer my first question.
This is a real learning experience. If anyone has any input based on the default renogy settings below and the specs of my battery to help me make the best parameter adjustments to get the best cycle life, that would be much appreciated as I think this subject of parameter settings is not really covered in the instruction manuals or websites of these products. Do you think i should ask these questions separately? they are interrelated but some people hate long posts.
here is the list of the parameters of my battery the Torque Power brand followed by the default lithium settings on my rengory mppt 20amp controller
Toroup power 12v LifePo4 100ah battery trqpower.com/product/12v-100ah-lithium-battery/
Voltage: 12 Volts DC
Capacity: 100 Ah (1,280 Watt-hours)
Weight: 26.4 lbs (12.0 kg)
Size: 12.5×6.5×9.25 in (318x165x235 mm)
Long Life: 2,000 Cycles @80% DOD (on the website in another place it says 3,000 cycles @80%)
Operating Temperature: Discharge: -4°F – 140°F (-20°C – 60°C)
Charge: 32°F – 113°F (0°C – 45°C)
Charge Voltage: 14.6±0.1V
Discharge Cut-off Voltage 8 Volts DC:
Slow Charge Current: 10A for 10 hours
Fast Charge Current: 50A for 2 hours
Float Voltage (Standby): 13.8±0.1V
Max Discharge Current: 100A / 350A (3s)
Self Discharge Rate: ≤1.5% per month
This is the list of what my Renogy charge controller parameters automatically dealt to when I choose LI on my charge controller. I must assume this is what they think works best with their renogy lifepo4 batteries. Although I can adjust these parameters in the using the renogy charge controller bluetooth thing and its app, i cannot turn off any other them that i think unnecessary to have, but some might be turned off since it has -- instead of a number: Battleborn website says lithium does not need equalization or boost. so that makes sense, and anyway those are all set to 14.4 so that voltage goal I think is the main way this mppt charger is operating
high voltage disconnect 16,0
charge limit voltage 15.5
Equalize Charge 14.4
Boost Charge 14.4
float charge 14.4
boost char return volt 13.2
over disc reture volt 12.6 (they actually spell it reture in the app? I guess they mean return)
low voltage alarm 12.1
over discharge volt 11.1
discharge limit volt 10.6
over disc delay time (s) 5
Equalize charge time (min) 0
boost charge time --
Equalize Charge interval --
temp compensation mv/C/2v) 0