parked
Solar Newcomer
Posts: 13
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Post by parked on Jul 26, 2019 14:59:10 GMT
Did a test after work on my system, BT app showed 2 watts, so I plugged my Jackery 240 into a 12 volt port to charge it. Jackery showed 56 watts coming in, my BT app showed 58 watts being produced. I unpluged the Jackery and the BT app showed a corresponding drop in watts. I did this several times each time I had the same results. I moved my van to several different locations and angles with very minimal change. So I am left to believe that the BT app shows the watts being used not produced.
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Post by tattoo on Jul 26, 2019 16:19:14 GMT
So I am left to believe that the BT app shows the watts being used not produced. Nope......... Because if that was true it would also show you that at night...........
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Post by tattoo on Jul 26, 2019 16:21:20 GMT
I moved my van to several different locations and angles with very minimal change. Did you drive it on a hill or curb on one side of your van??
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parked
Solar Newcomer
Posts: 13
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Post by parked on Jul 26, 2019 17:14:09 GMT
At night my BT app shows zero watts, I plug in my Jackery to a 12 volt port and it pulls charge from my batteries, watt reading on the app does not change.
Drove my van up a steep hill and parked nose straight away from the sun, if memory serves, I gained 2 watts.
I will do more configurations tonight but I still believe that the app shows watts being used from the panels. Not what they can produce at that time, but what is being used.
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Post by mediadogg on Jul 26, 2019 18:01:20 GMT
parked, check early in the day when the the area just below Temp. (bt app) shows a small battery icon and shows 'Bulk charge mode.' Anytime you are in Bulk mode all the panel power is being used. Once you hit boost (14.6v or whatever) the controller limits power to not over charge the battery keeping its voltage constant (if it can). after 2 hrs or so then you will be in float mode which further limits cuz the controller is try to keep a constant 13.?v at the battery. In boost or float there is generally extra power that can be used and not disturb battery charging. So yes the BT app CAN show what the panels are doing if you get the controller in bulk mode, either earlier in the day before the batteries to 'boost voltage' or forcing it into bulk by adding enough loads to the battery to reduce batt voltage low enough (13 of so) for the controller to enter bulk mode. parked Your analysis cannot be complete until you factor in these comments from bupkis. I learned something here. As usual, things are not always as simple as they seem. Please read this post (again) and take note of what charge state the batteries are in (indicated by the battery icon that bupkis referred to). Remember, the charge controller is responding to what the battery needs. That is its main purpose. It is designed to protect the battery from both over and under charging. So, regardless of what the panels are "producing" or "making" or "generating", the charge controller will protect the battery by only "using" what the battery needs, based on its current state of charge. What bupkis pointed out, is that when the battery is at a point where it needs maximum charge ("bulk" status), and you have no load running at the time, then what BT will be showing will at the same time be what the controller is "using" and the panels are producing. Of course if the panels have the capacity to produce a lot more than what the controller ever needs, you cannot know that from the BT app, since by design, the controller draws only what it needs from the panels. Think about it: if the panels were "making" 100 watts, but only 10 watts was needed to charge the battery (for simplicity, let's assume the load is off), then if the entire 100 watts was flowing into the controller, what device would be dissipating the excess 90 watts? Now if you are in the mood for yet another thought, here is what kind of completes the story: Each component in your system is just a device that reacts to inputs to produce certain outputs. They know little or nothing about each other. So, for example, if your load needs 500 watts to run, and your inverter can handle it, that amount of power will flow to the load until your battery drops down to a point where the protection circuitry of the inverter shuts it off. Prior to that point, your charge controller has been reacting to the change in battery conditions (voltage, current and possibly temperature), and supplying only what the battery needed to be safely charged, IF AVAILABLE. If the panels were not generating enough power to meet the demand, the battery voltage would continue to drop until either the controller, the inverter, or other external protection circuitry shut off the load. (Sorry my post is out of sequence. I had to take a phone call while I was writing it, then other posts came in ...)
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Post by tattoo on Jul 26, 2019 18:06:49 GMT
At night my BT app shows zero watts, I plug in my Jackery to a 12 volt port and it pulls charge from my batteries, watt reading on the app does not change. Drove my van up a steep hill and parked nose straight away from the sun, if memory serves, I gained 2 watts. I will do more configurations tonight but I still believe that the app shows watts being used from the panels. Not what they can produce at that time, but what is being used. Think whatt you want... LOL
But you are wrong......
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Post by tattoo on Jul 26, 2019 18:08:33 GMT
Your analysis cannot be complete until you factor in these comments from bupkis. I learned something here. I'm glad your learning that's what it's all about..........
Solar isn't as easy as people think it is........
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parked
Solar Newcomer
Posts: 13
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Post by parked on Jul 26, 2019 18:13:16 GMT
OK I still have a lot to learn Here!! Does the controller always go into bulk mode early in the day or only if needed? My question is, if my batteries are full, will the controller automatically go to bulk charging? Or will I have to draw them down at night far enough for them to need a bulk charge to start the day?
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parked
Solar Newcomer
Posts: 13
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Post by parked on Jul 26, 2019 18:15:06 GMT
I only have a Maxxfan connected to my batteries, so very little load at all.
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parked
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Post by parked on Jul 26, 2019 18:19:26 GMT
Reading Bupkis post again, if I put a high enough draw on my batteries it will force the controller into bulk charge mode?
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Post by mediadogg on Jul 26, 2019 19:23:12 GMT
Reading Bupkis post again, if I put a high enough draw on my batteries it will force the controller into bulk charge mode? The controller goes into bulk mode when it needs to. It is solely based on the status of the battery and nothing else. The controller doesn't care how the battery got there: heavy load for a short time, or small load over a long time, or idle for months without charging ... it doesn't care. It has the "same" logic as a battery charger that you plug into the wall. It detects the battery status and then charges appropriately whenever you hook them up together. Those chargers get their power from the AC outlet, whereas a solar charge controller gets its power from the sun, by regulating the output (using PWM or MPPT) from solar panels. So, yes, you can force bulk mode by draining the battery to a safe level, say 12.4 volts. Do that by running a load larger than your panels can supply, or at night when you have no sun, then in the morning, as bupkis said, the charger will rev up and grab as much power as it can ONLY UP TO WHAT IT NEEDS, to start re-charging the battery.
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Post by bupkis on Jul 26, 2019 20:45:14 GMT
Parked, yes, usually the 'return to boost' voltage is something like 13 or slightly higher so if the batt voltage gets below 13 it should revert to bulk and overnight your batts should be below 13 unless they are newish AGM or li. during bulk all the panel power is being used. In boost the batts got to 14.? and now the controller is holding that voltage constant by turning the panels on and off. As the batt gets closed to full charge the off time increases to limit power and keep the batts at 14.? Float is same as boost but now the set pt voltage is 13.? and less power is needed to maintain that unless you turn on 56 watts of stuff, the controller delivers that 56 watss and stays in float cuz there was enough power to do that. This is how I invision a osiliscope of 50% duty cycle (50% on time 50% off time) PWM. Not off = zero amps and Voc (22v). MPPT would be the same but ON = MPPT and OFF = Voc. click to enlarge To me that would be 2A @ 14.8v or ~ 30w The app may report 18v or some ave of 14.8 + 22 the 4A is changing all the time based on the sun etal, dynamic. The controllers job is to prevent overcharge, it get the batts to 14.?, then holds it there for 2 hrs then holds em at 13.? till dark if it can!
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parked
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Post by parked on Jul 26, 2019 21:01:48 GMT
OK starting to sink in now, I'll put a good load on my batteries tonight and see if I can get them down to 12.4ish. Then tomorrow I'll hide in the shade for a few hours and then go hit the sun. If I get this correctly, then the controller will jump to bulk charging and be taking everything my panels have, to a point of not over charging them. This all explains why when I first connected my system up and my batteries were at 12.4 or so why I saw the watts spike to 145.
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Post by mediadogg on Jul 26, 2019 21:28:30 GMT
By jove, I think he's got it! Thanks to bupkis for all that detailed poop on charging. I'm happy to understand things in more depth!
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parked
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Post by parked on Jul 26, 2019 21:56:30 GMT
Thanks to all of you that took time to educate me!!!
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