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Post by alexandervineyard on Feb 14, 2019 4:47:23 GMT
Today, my new 3k watt inverter charger came. YAY! But wow.. so big. No biggie.
I was stoked to finally be able to use my ol electric kettle I used to use in my RV but... NOPE!
When I flip on the power hog.. the inverter immediately kicks on it’s fan at full blast, and about 1-2 seconds later, lights out.
And I mean that literally. EVERYTHING turns off. All the things plugged into the inverter, AND everything 12 volt too, the lights and the roof fan.
So, this tells me that this supposedly 1500 watt rated electric kettle is somehow drawing so much power from the inverter, that some safety measure is tripping.
Now that I’m thinking about it.. it’s probably not the inverter to blame on this. It’s probably the charge controller turning things off, since that’s the only thing which can control the battery.
So it seems maybe the charge controller is all “HOLY SHIT TOO MUCH POWER FROM THE BATTERY SO FAST THIS IS NOT SAFE” and shuts everything off.
About 5 seconds later everything comes back on and all is well again, but this happens every time (only tried it twice... don’t want to do it again, afraid of doing damage).
Anyone know what I am doing wrong? Is this silly electric kettle drawing too much power too fast maybe? It’s only rated at 1500 watts, but maybe it’s trying to draw more amperage than the charge controller is cool with...
Not sure becuase I am not an electritian and I am trying to figure this van build out on my own and I am still not totally clear on the difference between amps, watts and volts.. so that makes things harder to diagnose.
If anyone can help me figure this out without a super technical lesson in electrics, I’d really appreciate you!
Thanks much fam.
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Post by bupkis on Feb 14, 2019 12:10:53 GMT
What is the inverter connected to, ie how does it connect to 12v power (including any fuses or breakers). Conntrollers are not meant to power inverters, your 12A 1500w kettle draws 120A+ DC 12v. I do note a max continuous load for renogy 100ah Li battery, you likely exceed that www.renogy.com/template/files/Manuals/RNG-LFP_Manual_V1.0.pdf |
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Post by tattoo on Feb 14, 2019 12:54:03 GMT
I say your battery isn't big enough to keep up with that much draw..........
Why did you get such a large inverter? The inverter itself will pull all kinds of power just by itself....
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Post by alexandervineyard on Feb 14, 2019 18:21:31 GMT
bupkis - The inverter is connected directly to the battery. Not connected to the controller, except perhaps indirectly, being that the inverter and the controller are connected to the battery. tattoo - Would adding another 100ah lipo battery change that? I got a large inverter so I could power certain 120v things which have a high running and starting wattage. Primarily, the electric kettle (1500 watts), the induction cooktop (1800 watts) and the window Air Conditioner (1400 running, 5000 starting). Looking at the User Guideline for the battery bupkis linked above (thank you) max draw is 100 amps. Makes sense, being a 100ah battery. So my guess after both of your helpful replies is simply that the electric kettle is trying to draw more amps than the battery can push out, and either the BMS in the battery or some other safety feature in the controller is shutting the battery off, then the controller is restarting it after a few seconds. Question to anyone who knows more about these batteries and watts/volts/amps than I do: Would getting another battery added to create 200ah of lithium increase the maximum discharge amperage of the battery bank?
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Post by tattoo on Feb 14, 2019 22:21:16 GMT
bupkis tattoo - Would adding another 100ah lipo battery change that? I got a large inverter so I could power certain 120v things which have a high running and starting wattage. Primarily, the electric kettle (1500 watts), the induction cooktop (1800 watts) and the window Air Conditioner (1400 running, 5000 starting). Man I don't think 5 more 100ah batteries will run all of what you have listed above.... I have twice the panels you have and 6 1/2 times the batteries and I wouldn't attempt to run that many things off of my system...
I have a 500w inverter for my everyday usage and a 2000w inverter for things like a table saw etc because it uses to much power when it's not doing anything...... Your 3000w inverter alone is going to put a hurting on your little battery with nothing running at night....
You really need to rethink what you can and can't run off of solar......
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Post by alexandervineyard on Feb 15, 2019 0:53:17 GMT
As far as the inverter draw, the 3k watt inverter has a smart auto-off feature, and I can use a remote for it too, which I intend to. With my 1k inverter it actually never made a dent in my single 100ah lithium battery. During the day with the solar coming in I never saw it go below 100%, and never below 98% on a cloudy day. I have checked it when I wake up in the morning and the lowest I have seen it was 99%, but usually it stays at 100%. I figured a 3k inverter won't make that much of a difference. tattoo I obviously wouldn't be running everything at once. I'm also looking at more efficient air conditioners. I intend to have 4 100ah lipo batteries. This is the blog I read from a vanlifer who made AC possible with his build and which I am trying to duplicate, and improve a little on. His batteries are lead acid, so he has to stop before they reach 50%. I went lithium so I didn't have to. hurriedyear.com/2017/05/29/solar-powered-air-conditioner-in-a-sprinter-van/Oh and also these peeps: www.gonewiththewynns.com/off-grid-solar-rv-air-conditioning and I obviously have a much smaller space than they do. (140 wheelbase sprinter) So that's the main reason I ask if a larger battery bank increases the max amperage I can draw from it. I assumed before that a larger bank just meant longer run time, but if it does increase max amperage draw, then all I should need to do is get more batteries. And a more efficient AC would help too. |
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Post by tattoo on Feb 15, 2019 0:59:56 GMT
So what are you running off of your system when it only gets down to 98%? It's obvious it's nothing that you described here, the electric kettle (1500 watts), the induction cooktop (1800 watts) and the window Air Conditioner (1400 running, 5000 starting). Just curious?
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Post by alexandervineyard on Feb 15, 2019 15:48:10 GMT
I was just mentioning that as the performance of the 1k inverter, not the 3k inverter. The 1k inverter couldn't handle any of things things I listed, that's why I bought the 3k inverter. The most power consuming things I ever ran successfully off the 1k inverter were hand power tools to work on the van; circular saw, drill, jigsaw etc.
But btw, you were absolutely right on the 3k inverter/charger. That thing is a beast. I decided to leave it on yesterday (a cloudy day) and through last night to see how much it would suck out of the battery... and a loud beeping from the inverter woke me up at 3am. I turned it off then checked the battery, the charger literally said 0%.
So there is definitely a huge disparity between the cost to run the 1k inverter, and the 3k inverter/charger. I figured that it couldn't be that much difference, but I should have actually looked at the numbers before I bought it.
I need to figure what the people that have gotten Air Con off Lithium have done differently, other than having a larger battery bank. I understand how you wire the batteries makes a difference in output, perhaps that's key.
Back to the research
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Post by tattoo on Feb 15, 2019 16:03:53 GMT
So there is definitely a huge disparity between the cost to run the 1k inverter, and the 3k inverter/charger. I figured that it couldn't be that much difference, but I should have actually looked at the numbers before I bought it. I need to figure what the people that have gotten Air Con off Lithium have done differently, other than having a larger battery bank. I understand how you wire the batteries makes a difference in output, perhaps that's key.
That's why I went to a 500w inverter after I started with a 2000w inverter.... They pull way to much power when they are at idle which you found out last night......
I don't understand what you mean by how you hook up a battery makes a difference in the output...... As far as I know there is only one way to hook up a battery for 12v or 24v or what ever......
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Post by alexandervineyard on Feb 15, 2019 18:48:05 GMT
tattoo I mean Series vs. Parallel. I know Series increases voltage but keeps amp hour capacity the same. Parallel increases amp hour capacity but leaves the voltage the same. And if you have four batteries, you can do series-parallel, which increases voltage and amp hour capacity. I think, since i have modeled my DC system for 12 volts, and I don't want to increase it to 24, I need to do Parallel. But, my biggest question with this is: will running two or more batteries in Parallel allow for higher amperage draw? Meaning, can I draw more than 100 amps out of the batteries at one time? Will putting two 100ah batteries in Parallel mean my max draw is increased to 200 amps? I think the answer is yes. If it is, that means with 4 LiPo batteries connected in Parallel, I should have a max output of 400 amps, which I believe is enough passed to the inverter so it can run high wattage appliances. I'll probably have to find a battery/electricity expert. I have a friend I can ask probably this weekend. Unless someone here beats me to it!
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Post by tattoo on Feb 15, 2019 22:38:26 GMT
Yes 4 12v 100ah batteries will be 400ah 12v total....
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Post by Admin on Feb 17, 2019 13:33:26 GMT
tattoo I mean Series vs. Parallel. I know Series increases voltage but keeps amp hour capacity the same. Parallel increases amp hour capacity but leaves the voltage the same. And if you have four batteries, you can do series-parallel, which increases voltage and amp hour capacity. I think, since i have modeled my DC system for 12 volts, and I don't want to increase it to 24, I need to do Parallel. But, my biggest question with this is: will running two or more batteries in Parallel allow for higher amperage draw? Meaning, can I draw more than 100 amps out of the batteries at one time? Will putting two 100ah batteries in Parallel mean my max draw is increased to 200 amps? I think the answer is yes. If it is, that means with 4 LiPo batteries connected in Parallel, I should have a max output of 400 amps, which I believe is enough passed to the inverter so it can run high wattage appliances. I'll probably have to find a battery/electricity expert. I have a friend I can ask probably this weekend. Unless someone here beats me to it! Adding batteries in parallel will increase your overall storage bank and usage. The time of usage depends on your appliances and their approximate run times on top of how many watts they consume. -Renogy Team |
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Post by alexandervineyard on Feb 19, 2019 16:18:23 GMT
tattoo Admin Thank you. I know having more batteries will increase capacity. What I am trying to figure out is if I add more batteries, will that increase the max discharge of the battery bank. I know people have run things that draw more than 100 amps off their lithium battery banks. I'm trying to figure out how they do it. My guess is that more batteries = higher max discharge. I am also wondering if the way you wire the batteries has an effect on the max discharge. My goal here is to be able to run the air conditioner off my battery bank and only turn on the generator when I absolutely need to. Seeing as how I will only need to run the AC 1-4 hours at a time, and knowing others have done it, I know it is possible. Just trying to figure out exactly how.
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Post by bupkis on Feb 19, 2019 17:24:55 GMT
In the RV world running a microwave for short periods (~1000w), 2 x 6v flooded 220ah in series = 1, 12v, 220ah is hit and miss 2 x 12v agm 100ah in parallel = 1,, 12v 200ah is bettery than hit and miss. generally it takes 4 6v 220ah configured series/parallel in on 12v 440ah The big issue is the voltage drop under load, the agm keep a higher voltage under the same load. another issue is battery cpacity at large load is reduced, generally ah capacity is measure over a constant discharge for 20hr. So that a 100ah battery rated @20hr is much smaller @ 100A discharge. here's a summary and some info on how big a solar/battery bank is needed. www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHPIEy9Ciac&feature=youtu.bebest not to even try. |
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Post by tattoo on Feb 19, 2019 18:00:10 GMT
Yep, ^^^^^ It's not worth the cost or trouble...... What do you have against boiling water with propane? 
In reality your going to need to use either your generator or AC power to do what your hoping to run....... Because your going to need so many batteries and panels it's not worth the cost..... Plus you don't have the room it's going to take...
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