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Post by bupkis on Jul 21, 2019 16:58:27 GMT
here is how you connect 12v batteries to make one big 12v battery, in parallel. Do it in a balanced fashion as described for better battery performance. Method 1 is BAD www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.htmlwhen you series 2 12v batteries you get one 24v battery!!! here is 2 12v batteries is parallel
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Post by Islander on Jul 21, 2019 17:50:58 GMT
Yeah its overkill at this point but I am expecting to have 2 more batteries connected very shortly.
The Carmanah sell on Amazon (Canada) for $289. As soon as funds are available I will order 2 more.
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The sparking scarred the top of one battery and was quite a surprise. Fortunately I was only lightly touching the post.
I just did not proceed. I re-connected in parallel. Both batteries seem to be fine.
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Both panels are now secured to the rooftop, in parallel. They are in shade at the moment but should show their power as soon as the sun moves from behind a tree.
Next step today is to disconnect from the charge controller and put a Blue Sea fuse between the panels and the controller.
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Post by tattoo on Jul 21, 2019 17:55:28 GMT
Yeah its overkill at this point but I am expecting to have 2 more batteries connected very shortly. It will still be over kill with 2 more small batteries..... But that's fine if your happy.....
Be careful hooking up the batteries they can hurt you........
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Post by Islander on Jul 21, 2019 18:15:28 GMT
I have my current setup connected to my wife's computer, printer and router.
Occasionally I connect a small solar battery to the inverter to charge and a few other odds and ends like a weed wacker.
When I have everything connected I can see a steady drop in the battery charge, even in full sunlight.
My goal is to have heat, light and cooking ability when the next power outage happens.
One of my goalposts is to be able to run a small oil (looks like a radiator) heater, as well as the other stuff.
The oil heater quickly drops the battery load even with 1 X 275W and 2 batteries and in full sunlight.
I reasoned that I would need to be able to at least double my capacity to prevent the batteries dying during the night.
To me this did not seem like overkill.
Where is my vision wrong on this? Serious question.
You folks are the pro's and I'm on a steep learning curve.
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We do have a fireplace insert but without power for the fan it does not work well, and it only heats the main space in our home.
The oil heater seems a necessity, with lights and powering something like an Induction Burner in second place.
In the meantime I hope to connect my setup to my own computer, as well as my wife's and with any power left over perhaps connect our septic pump and clothes washer.
May as well drop the power bill when the outage is not happening.
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With my 2 X 275W panels where do things even out? Six batteries?
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Post by tattoo on Jul 21, 2019 19:36:59 GMT
See the problem is in your battery AMP hours aren't large enough that's why you see the batteries power drop so especially at night......
The first thing you need to know is how much power are you using in a 24 hour period? You can check that with s killawatt meter....
I'll say this again, Using solar to run a Heater or AC is a waste of solar power.... It takes a LOT to do that..... Also cooking, heating water etc should be done with propane.......
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Post by Islander on Jul 21, 2019 21:27:54 GMT
Hmm.. food for thought.
People are running their entire household from solar.
I am not anywhere near that level but are they not cooking, heating etc. with solar?
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Post by tattoo on Jul 21, 2019 21:53:16 GMT
Hmm.. food for thought. People are running their entire household from solar. I am not anywhere near that level but are they not cooking, heating etc. with solar? I never said they didn't........ Yes they do but there system is many many many times larger than what you have now, hell even larger than what I have......
At this point I have 12 100w panels 6 batteries with 645ah of batteries and I wouldn't attempt trying to cook, heat or cool my cabin even thought I could cook if I wanted...... Ok food for thought........ So how close are you to what I have??
Now back to my question how many watts are you using in 24 hours???
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Post by Islander on Jul 21, 2019 23:05:25 GMT
I am not attempting to run my house off of the solar setup.
The main focus is for Emergency outages. The power produced when there is no emergency is a bonus as far as I am concerned and should cut our power bill down quite a bit.
As I learn more I may grow the whole project up to a grid-tie level, but that is far off at this point.
I just want to run a fan for our fireplace insert, run the oil heater, have some light and run an Induction cooker.
How many watts is that?
The oil heater uses from 600 - 1500W.
The fireplace fan is negligible, say 50W.
Lights for a Winter day maybe 400W. And the induction burner about 2,200 - 3,300 but with very limited use.
So using the maximum figures 1500 + 50 + 400 + 3,300 = 5,500 rounded off.
I can produce that amount with my current panels. Now I need battery storage for when the sun goes down. Overnight it will be mostly just heat.
This is pretty minimalist. If I go a little overboard no sweat, I will use any extra energy to run appliances year around.
Clothes washer - 500W.
Septic pump - 500W
Computers, routers, printers etc. - round off at 200W.
No attempt at this point to run my home exclusively from solar. Emergencies only.
When I reach 4 X 275 I will be almost at the same point as you. When I get to 6 of my 110amh batteries we should be pretty equal.
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Post by tattoo on Jul 21, 2019 23:42:36 GMT
I am not attempting to run my house off of the solar setup. The main focus is for Emergency outages. The power produced when there is no emergency is a bonus as far as I am concerned and should cut our power bill down quite a bit. As I learn more I may grow the whole project up to a grid-tie level, but that is far off at this point. I just want to run a fan for our fireplace insert, run the oil heater, have some light and run an Induction cooker. How many watts is that? The oil heater uses from 600 - 1500W. The fireplace fan is negligible, say 50W. Lights for a Winter day maybe 400W. And the induction burner about 2,200 - 3,300 but with very limited use. So using the maximum figures 1500 + 50 + 400 + 3,300 = 5,500 rounded off. I can produce that amount with my current panels. Now I need battery storage for when the sun goes down. Overnight it will be mostly just heat. This is pretty minimalist. If I go a little overboard no sweat, I will use any extra energy to run appliances year around. Clothes washer - 500W. Septic pump - 500W Computers, routers, printers etc. - round off at 200W. No attempt at this point to run my home exclusively from solar. Emergencies only. When I reach 4 X 275 I will be almost at the same point as you. When I get to 6 of my 110amh batteries we should be pretty equal. I wish you the best of luck but that ^^^ will never happen even with what I have now.. It will take twice if not three times what I have. You need to know exactly what your using in 24 hours not a guess like The oil heater uses from 600 - 1500W that tells you nothing....
Again I wish you the best of luck......
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Post by tattoo on Jul 21, 2019 23:44:05 GMT
So using the maximum figures 1500 + 50 + 400 + 3,300 = 5,500 rounded off. I can produce that amount with my current panels.
I doubt it...... 2500 at best with 4 of your 275w panels...
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Post by mediadogg on Jul 22, 2019 1:20:23 GMT
either is fine, I think parallel is a tad better due to less transforming power loss from higher to battery voltage and shade issue with series. series does keep the input amps lower and therefore less voltage drop over the same size wire. There are only two panels involved here, so it makes things quite simple - only two options. Since he is using an MPPT controller with auto-sensing for battery voltage 12/24 and with circuitry designed to deliver the maximum current, as required by the battery for charging, regardless of the input voltage. The voltage of the panel (12V or 24V) is kind of a misnomer. The panel voltage and battery voltage are two separate unrelated things. The MPPT controller converts the power coming in, to power going out, at the correct voltage and current needed to properly charge the battery at any point in time. With an MPPT controller, you can use either a "24V panel" or "12V panel" to charge either a 12V battery or 24V battery system. The controller will boost the input voltage as necessary, and provide as much current as possible, up to the limit of the incoming power (usually at >90% efficiency). In general, if you have little or uniform shade, then series connections to an MPPT controller will make it a lot more efficient, because it will have a higher voltage to work with from dawn to dusk. On the other hand, if your shade slides across the panels in such a way as to shade one panel while illuminating the other, then parallel is the best way to mitigate this. While one panel is shaded and providing very little output, the other one will still be producing a higher voltage and current. Personally, I would start with series and give your MPPT controller maximum voltage range to play with. When you install the next two, just create a duplicate series string and put it in parallel with the first. All of the considerations that have been mentioned before are valid, but we have no basis to judge. Those other factors depend on how the panels are installed, the amount of shading, the length of the wire run and wire gauge. Those things will have a far greater impact on your results than simply whether or not you use series or parallel.
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Post by Islander on Jul 22, 2019 1:25:18 GMT
Thanks media dog. Very well said.
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Post by tattoo on Jul 22, 2019 2:26:56 GMT
All of the considerations that have been mentioned before are valid, but we have no basis to judge. Those other factors depend on how the panels are installed, the amount of shading, the length of the wire run and wire gauge. Those things will have a far greater impact on your results than simply whether or not you use series or parallel. I totally disagree..... Sure you can figure if he can get 5500w of power in a day with 1100w panels on any configuration in full sun with a 12v system...... Since that's what he has.....
If you can't I understand.........
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Post by tattoo on Jul 22, 2019 2:27:16 GMT
Thanks media dog. Very well said. Not really........
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Post by mediadogg on Jul 22, 2019 2:37:02 GMT
All of the considerations that have been mentioned before are valid, but we have no basis to judge. Those other factors depend on how the panels are installed, the amount of shading, the length of the wire run and wire gauge. Those things will have a far greater impact on your results than simply whether or not you use series or parallel. I totally disagree..... Sure you can figure if he can get 5500w of power in a day with 1100w panels on any configuration in full sun with a 12v system...... Since that's what he has.....
If you can't I understand.........
Sorry, I don't quite get why the confrontation. I intended to be commenting on the series vs. parallel idea. While I was creating my post, some other posts came in on other topics. Perhaps I misunderstood the purpose of this forum. Personally, I will attempt to be constructive and helpful, and I am sure that I will need some help at times. I definitely don't expect to always be correct, but I find no particular reason for your reaction. I'll go back and take a look at the capacity discussion. I don't intend to comment, but at least I will see what you were talking about. I'm sure that whatever you said had merit. I was not intending to refute it, or even comment on it actually. I was sort of looking forward to learning from group of folks here, especially from an "aficionado" as well as contribute based on my own experience. My label might be "Newcomer" based on the number of posts, but I am not a newcomer to the technology or its implementation. And if I ever reach "aficionado" status, I hope people will recognize that in addition to lots of posts, I have added value while maintaining a respectful demeanor.
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