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Post by blade3609 on Aug 10, 2019 15:10:19 GMT
Has anyone ever used this "Xantrex 8080915 PROwatt SW Auto Transfer Switch" or "MOES Dual Power Controller 50A 5500 Watt Automatic Transfer Switch for Off Grid Solar Wind System ATS DC 12V 24V 48V AC 110V 220V" in there solar setup. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by mediadogg on Aug 10, 2019 15:47:00 GMT
I use two of " Xantrex 8080915 PROwatt SW Auto Transfer Switch", for almost 3 years now. So they are robust. The transfer time is relatively slow for sensitive equipment such as computers, so I actually feed the output of the ATS to my computer battery-backed UPS that prevent my computers from seeing the power glitch. More recently, I have got a couple of the other ones: "MOES Dual Power Controller 50A 5500 Watt Automatic Transfer Switch for Off Grid Solar Wind System ATS DC 12V 24V 48V AC 110V 220V"They seem to have a much faster switching time, and I can regulate the switch points based on the battery voltage, which serves also to protect the battery. It helps make the grid to solar (and back) transitions fiddle free. I have one that switches based on battery voltage, and my other switches on power loss by sensing the loss of 12VDC from a little power brick plugged into the mains. I do have the problem that every now and then, the ground fault protection trips on my Samlex inverter. I have the grid / out / inverter grounds tied together in my installation. I think I need to disconnect the inverter ground, someday when I get around to it.
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Post by blade3609 on Aug 10, 2019 15:52:10 GMT
Thats great man! Thanks for your input.
How can you solve the issue of the ground fault protection trip on the inverter? because i also heard this and it can also damage the inverter after a while, what some people have claimed.
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Post by mediadogg on Aug 10, 2019 16:00:52 GMT
Thats great man! Thanks for your input. How can you solve the issue of the ground fault protection trip on the inverter? because i also heard this and it can also damage the inverter after a while, what some people have claimed. Not sure. I haven't figured it out yet. I called Samlex about it and their engineer suggested that I just replace the ground fault socket with a regular one. I didn't like the sound of that ...
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Post by blade3609 on Aug 10, 2019 16:25:49 GMT
I dont like that idea either lol... maybe the response is way to fast so it triggers the trip? I have a "Spartan Power 50A 5500 Watt Automatic Transfer Switch Great for Solar & Wind Off Grid Systems" (which is the same as the MOES) , but never actually used it yet.. after reading that it might damage my inverter after a while due to many GFCI trips. Im going to buy "Xantrex 8080915 PROwatt SW Auto Transfer Switch" instead then, and use it combined with my UPS.
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Post by mediadogg on Aug 10, 2019 16:53:50 GMT
I dont like that idea either lol... maybe the response is way to fast so it triggers the trip? I have a "Spartan Power 50A 5500 Watt Automatic Transfer Switch Great for Solar & Wind Off Grid Systems" (which is the same as the MOES) , but never actually used it yet.. after reading that it might damage my inverter after a while due to many GFCI trips. Im going to buy "Xantrex 8080915 PROwatt SW Auto Transfer Switch" instead then, and use it combined with my UPS. Good luck. Let's keep each other posted since we are using the same stuff. Another annoying problem is that if you are switching back and forth a lot - during start of day and end of day when the solar is on the borderline, the UPS does slowly drain the battery, drip by drip as it protects the equipment. If you get too many cycles before the solar stabilizes, then the UPS will shut down. I solved my problem by putting a separate UPS on each of 3 different servers. You will of course have to judge for yourself. It is totally dependent on the individual situation.
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Post by blade3609 on Aug 10, 2019 17:08:45 GMT
Sounds good my friend.
I didn't get the last part. what you mean by this? " If you get too many cycles before the solar stabilizes, then the UPS will shut down"
How do you switch using the Xantrex 8080915 PROwatt SW Auto Transfer Switch, does your inverter shutdown when voltage gets low and then it uses utility or do you actually manually switch it off. Or do you use a timer?
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Post by mediadogg on Aug 10, 2019 20:29:07 GMT
Well it is automatic, so there is no manual options other than pulling the plug. And yes I do use timers to try and make the system even more automatic. But no matter what you do, during the times when you normally expect for the system to be switched to solar, there will be some combination of weather and sunlight that puts the system right on the edge of switching. So when either your battery protection board or the inverter low-voltage protection shuts off the inverter, the ATS also switches. And then the battery charges up a bit, and the ATS switches the other way, and so on and so on. If that cycle occurs so freaquently that the UPS batteries can't recover their lost charge, then those batteries will slowly deplete to the point where the UPS shuts off. That's why I like the MOES units. They have hysteresis, so you can delay the switching by adjusting the set points. There are also a new class of cheap battery protection boards available now. They work great, and you can adjust the set points with 0.1 volt accuracy. If I had known about them earlier, I would not have bought the MOES units. The boards don't handle a lot of power, but they could either switch a relay if necessary to carry your inverter load, or directly control one of these or one of these DC triggered AC switches to control the AC going to the ATS from the inverter. Since I have several "mini-systems" as I call them, and built things in stages over the years, I have a whole mixed bag of various methods. If I started clean now, I would use the best and cheapest methods for everything. Simplified Diagram of ATS with UPS and Battery Protection
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Post by blade3609 on Aug 10, 2019 21:58:33 GMT
Those do look nice! i might give them a try, i ordered the Xantrex 8080915 PROwatt SW Auto Transfer Switch today. I noticed you are not using utility as power on the ATS? You only have inverter as power?
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Post by mediadogg on Aug 10, 2019 22:06:11 GMT
Those do look nice! i might give them a try, i ordered the Xantrex 8080915 PROwatt SW Auto Transfer Switch today. I noticed you are not using utility as power on the ATS? You only have inverter as power? I think my "el cheapo" diagram threw you off. Utility is labelled "GRID" and you see it goes both into the ATS and UPS.
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Post by blade3609 on Aug 10, 2019 23:35:03 GMT
Yes now i see it, i saw it for GRD, as ground haha... thats exactly good, instead of the relay im planning on using a "Aeotec Smart Switch 6, Z-Wave Plus Wireless Control Plug for Home Security Automation, 15A Mini Size, Monitor Power, New Design without USB port " which i already have. I monitor the battery volt on my MPPT controller, and for the desired battery voltage i just send a shutdown command, and a turn on command when the desired battery voltage is reached.
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Post by mediadogg on Aug 11, 2019 0:06:50 GMT
Yes now i see it, i saw it for GRD, as ground haha... thats exactly good, instead of the relay im planning on using a "Aeotec Smart Switch 6, Z-Wave Plus Wireless Control Plug for Home Security Automation, 15A Mini Size, Monitor Power, New Design without USB port " which i already have. I monitor the battery volt on my MPPT controller, and for the desired battery voltage i just send a shutdown command, and a turn on command when the desired battery voltage is reached. Waaaay Cooool!!!!!
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Post by playersz28 on Aug 12, 2019 11:06:39 GMT
The Moes switch says 50A but is that for the 110v? I need a split phase 50A unit to have 240v.
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Post by mediadogg on Aug 12, 2019 11:44:32 GMT
The Moes switch says 50A but is that for the 110v? I need a split phase 50A unit to have 240v. Well the Amazon listing title says 50A 5500 Watt, so I assume 110V. Could you use two, switched by the same triggering voltage?
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Post by mediadogg on Aug 12, 2019 13:09:39 GMT
Those do look nice! i might give them a try, i ordered the Xantrex 8080915 PROwatt SW Auto Transfer Switch today. I noticed you are not using utility as power on the ATS? You only have inverter as power? I think my "el cheapo" diagram threw you off. Utility is labelled "GRID" and you see it goes both into the ATS and UPS. OMG there is a bug in my diagram!!! I will fix it later. This whole discussion has caused me to go and look at the actual wiring, instead of relying on my memory. And it also caused me to remember why I actually have an extra ProWatt in one of my systems. I might be able to fix this, if I can get the ground fault issue resolved. ONE ISSUE WITH THE MOES UNIT: Since is a DC triggered ATS, the MOES does not really care whether there is any actual power coming from the source inputs. Its ATS is being swicthed by the DC trigger, NOT by the presence or absence of Grid power. This means that if the MOES switches to an input that actually has no incoming power, then your load will fail. It will have no power. I was reminded of this from this discussion. When my inverter ground fault triggers, the inverter AC goes out, but THE BATTERY VOLTAGE IS STILL GOOD, so the MOES stays happily switched to inverter power, even though there is nothing coming in!!! And of course the UPS would then shut off when its battery ran down, and the non-UPS loads would shut down immediately when the ground fault was triggered. I know how to fix this now. I just need to put a small power brick on the solar AC side, and use it to power a relay controlling the battery voltage trigger. I will put all of this in my new diagram. The solution I have now actually uses an extra ProWatt to supply the UPS in case the incoming power goes down, which should never happen as long as the grid is up, but due to the way the MOES is designed, and the way I am configured, it can happen to me. So one change to the MOES design that would make it perfect, is that it should NOT SWITCH to an unpowered input.
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